kerdi membrane over cement board kerdi membrane over cement board

Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. Allow the primer to dry completely before proceeding with the KERDI installation. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? For all the substrates listed in this Handbook (e.g., gypsum board, cement backerboard, etc. Why do small African island nations perform better than African continental nations, considering democracy and human development? These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. x 96 in. Our thinset was more watery than the videos, but it still managed to dry out quickly, even in the time it takes to apply the small corners in our shampoo niche. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. You probably have to go to a big box store's special order desk or find a specialty tile supplier to find it. that's home depot homeowner installation method. If you ensure that silicone goes in and that the thin-set and grout do not bind there you should be good to go. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Depending on factors such as room temperature, humidity, and ventilation in the area, this could take anywhere from 1 to 3 days. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. Hang the cement boar. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. This will help to extend its lifespan and make sure it looks its best for years to come. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. . It only takes a minute to sign up. Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. If you preorder a special airline meal (e.g. By: Author Olin Wade (Remodel or Move Stuff). DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. We apply the thinset the recommended trowel, can't remember what size off the top of my head, in small sections and by the time my husband hands my the piece of membrane the thinset is not skinned over but certainly dry. Ditra is manufactured in a 3'3 width and comes in various roll lengths (54sf, 150sf, and 323 sf). see Prop 65 WARNINGS. I set the Kerdi with my hands, pat it into the thinset with my hands, then go over it with a 4" taping knife held at a low angle to embed the Kerdi in the thinset. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. Kerdi really offers very little advantage over hardiboard plus membrane. The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Step 7: Cut the Tile. Anytime Mongo. Need help liner vs liquid membrane question. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. Additionally, the use of modified thinset with KERDI could lead to cracks and other issues down the line as the modified thinset can shrink and pull away from the KERDI membrane over time. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. This flexible polyethylene layer is easy to install and can protect the tile from both cracking and moisture. I usually use Durock. It's still applied to cement board. Good luck with your project. One thing I do like fibercement (Hardie) for is when I need thin strips of cement board. But you might be struggling to figure out what kind of paint to use on garage walls. modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. This will ensure a strong bond between the KERDI membrane and the substrate. Bathroom closets are often catch-alls for anything and everything remotely related to self-care. When installation is done properly, Kerdi membrane offers a waterproof barrier that can protect the plywood below from moisture. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. Project Type: Tile / Category: Bathroom. In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. I also used the Kerdi drain. Schluter says that the Kerdi membrane and tile can be installed over standard gypsum wall board without any problems. Cement board is the most common and widely-known backer board. Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. With Wedi products, the compound curves are easy to produce quickly. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. On the other hand, a Schlter system offers improved thermal insulation, which can help to reduce heating costs. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Here are the fundamentals of tile installation over cement board. Properly waterproofed Hardie board should last for many years. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet, such as from a plumbing leak, or from infiltration on an exterior wall (as unlikely as that might be). Problem with very thick cement board/ tile/bullnose edge, Steam Shower Slip Joint Detail - The secret is in the boarding stage. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). . Any recommendations? And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? How did this project turn out? Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. rev2023.3.3.43278. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Additionally, a liquid water-resistant membrane should be applied over all surface areas before installation. Without an underlayment, even the slightest movement of the subfloor can result in cracking of the tile and crumbling of the grout lines. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? The grid lines on the surface are incredibly helpful for installation and making neat cuts. This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. There is a product called Kerdiboard you might want to look into. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. Thanks. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . . Various products can be used to waterproof shower walls such as water-resistant drywall and cement backer boards. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. ".1) is is okay to use kerdi board instead of ditra on the floor? Re: Kerdi on shower curbs. We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. The boards come in three-foot by five-foot and four-foot by eight-foot panels, sized for efficient use in bathrooms. Anyone who has done more than 1 shower shouldn't start without knowing that. I also used a larger sized trowel than the one recommend by Schluter. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Why do you think each board should be able to move at all let alone independently? Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. 173 upvotes. Think about movement. It's not a matter of trusting the Kerdi. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. @DMoore- OK, I agree that with redguard it would be redundant. Install the Schluter Kerdi membrane over the backer board using the correct mortar. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. I imagine we could share some good stories. When installing KERDI with . If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. It worked well - just like wallpapering. Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. Go with smaller bags or only mix half. Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. Significantly more time and effort is required to ensure a quality bond when using a modified thinset adhesive with KERDI, and for this reason, it is usually not recommended. The great thing about Kerdi Board is that it is lightweight and easier to maneuver. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. is that because water doesn't really hit that area?" - Lisa Jasper That's pushing it but should be fine. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. The colour is different. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. Gettin' a little delirious. New England. Calculating probabilities from d6 dice pool (Degenesis rules for botches and triggers). For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. Yes. You peeled it off? Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. The benefit of using kerdi is we can lay it over drywall, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. If you do not already have the hardi up, I recommend using real cement board (Hardi is a fiber-cement) or drywall. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. Step 4: Place the Tile. Yes, Kerdi membrane can be installed over plywood. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? My floor tiles are 2" x 2"." - Lisa Jasper No - you can not use Kerdi Board on the floor. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. It installs with screws, then you tape the joints & screw holes and install your tile. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Thanks Paul! The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . How do I connect these two faces together? But a mortar bed does have advantages. After roughly two days I would fill the corner with silicone. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. What to use to flatten and prep wall before installing Schluter Kerdi membrane for tiling? No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. To line niche shelves, for instance. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Schluter Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT 48 in. This is confusing since Kerdi Board has no Kerdi on it. Like cement board, the boards are heavy and hard to cut. I just a few weeks ago put kerdi on top of hardi-board in my shower and it was PAINFUL! A good rule of thumb is 24 hours per inch of thickness, then one more day on top of that to be sure. Cement board is readily available and relatively inexpensive (about $10 for a 3 x 5-ft. sheet). We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. As such, many homeowners and professionals find themselves wondering whether Kerdi Board or cement board is the better tile substrate. ! link to What Kind Of Paint For Garage Walls? If youre not careful, the boards can also leave behind abrasive sandy crumbs that can cause damage to your shower base or tub. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. They are square. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top, and use a rolling pin to press it down and ensure a secure bond.